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Minutes from 10-10-98 - Silk Road

Minutes of the Northshield Stallari Meeting

October 10, 1998, A.S. XXXIII

The meeting was convened by Lady Guenievre du Dragon Vert (Jennifer Carlson), the Seneschal, at 9:27 a.m. in the home of Lady Adela de Warren (Laura Crowder) and Lord Martin of Doncaster (Rob Crowder), Little Canada, MN.

In attendance:

Their Stellar Highnesses, Prince Belrix and Princess Prism of Bluerose (John and Christine Risch); Sir Tarrach Alfsson and Mistress Fiona nic Aoidh (Dave and Lorine Horvath), Lord and Lady Heirs to the Coronet; Lady Moraig Drummond (Sarah Fowlston), Polaris Herald; Lord Balthazar Fitz Gryphon (Mark Weiland), Chancellor of the Exchequer; Sir Wulfgang von dem Lowen (Frederick Jantz), Knights' Marshal; Lord Kenric Bjarnarson (Kenric Malmberg), Mistress Elysabet de Warren (Libbet P roudfit), Minister of Arts and Sciences; and Sian verch Gruffydd (Amanda Whitely), Chirurgeon.

Also in attendance:

Lady Elaine du Beauchamp (Elizabeth Pemberton), deputy to the Seneschal, as acting Council Secretary.


Amendments -- in the chronicler's report, the statement "He also has a warranted deputy" is incorrect; Lord Kenric was in the process of getting a warrant for Lady Giulia Isabella da Venezia (Nicolette Deplazes) as emergency deputy, as well as seeking a warrant for Lord Owen Alun (Ben Tucker) as special deputy for the Morningstar, Northshield's Pennsic newsletter.

Sir Wulfgang reiterated his desire (first mentioned in the previous "New Business" section) for a specific list of which kingdom mid-level awards may be given by Their Stellar Highnesses, as different Crowns reserve different awards for themselves. The hope is that this will clear up confusion and make process easier.

Motion to approve as amended, by Lady Moraig and seconded by HSH Belrix. Passed unanimously.


They would like to institute an arts and sciences award for children who are not yet ready for an AoA or Willow, but for whom recognition and encouragement are strong motivators. This is meant as a specialized complement to, not a replacement for, a Dragon's Treasure. Discussion focused on keeping awards age-appropriate, emphasizing not giving older children and adolescents awards that are too young for them, and carefully deciding which award is right on a case-by-case basis. Suggested language to inclu de "pre-teen" to help emphasize this. Suggestion that instead of an award, tokens could be given; the positive "peer quotient" of an actual award as an encouragement to participate seems to favor an award over a token. Suggestion that award tokens be given rather than award scrolls; lots of evidence that kids love scrolls in their own right, with or without an accompanying token, and are very careful of them, so scrolls are preferred, though accompanying tokens are a nice bonus. This should be an award rather than an order, so it may be given multiple times. Lady Moraig suggested using the name of a Christian child saint for the award, and there is an award in Ealdormere which uses a Christian saint's name, so there seems to be a precedent that this is not offensive. She will research saint names. TSH's and the Lord and Lady Heirs will reflect on this discussion.


HE Tarrach would like to consider an award similar to the Nordbandr, for outstanding incidents of valor or prowess, but to be given to groups. Sir Wulfgang suggested as an alternative using the Scroll of Honor to record the names and the deeds, since units and households are constantly changing membership. This way, the deed itself is memorialized and people can know exactly who was there to do it. Discussion of the Award of the Dragon's Teeth and how it can't be easily displayed by the individuals in th e group which earned it.

The subject turned to the Scroll of Honor and its keeping. HSH Belrix and others spoke very strongly about the need to have it accessible to the populace for viewing, perhaps displayed at courts, and that having it travel with the Royalty might be the best way to assure this. Lady Moraig reported that the Scroll is in the keeping of Viscountess Gwyneth, and that it has a cover. The pages were parceled out to specific scribes who are working on them. A suggestion that it be displayed at Midrealm coronati on in Windhaven next year was met with general enthusiasm.

Returning to the group award, there was a discussion of accompanying the entry in the Scroll with a token for the individuals to display. HE Tarrach thanked the group for their input and with HE Fiona will continue to think about this award.

For information, HE Tarrach stated that there will be face thrusting allowed at the upcoming November Coronet Tourney.


Council Secretary -- Lady Daria has resigned due to financial and time constraints. Does policy or custom demand that the job be re-posted, like the greater offices, or is this considered a deputy position to which she can simply appoint someone? Her candidate is Lady Elaine, already approved by Stallari as a deputy to the Seneschal, and the other applicant for the Council Secretary position when it was posted first. The choice of Lady Daria was made for geographic and project concerns; Lady Guen ievre is confident that Elaine can perform the required duties. General approval of Elaine as replacement; question as to whether this can be considered as a vacancy within Daria's probationary period, and Elaine, as original candidate, may be OK in light of that. Advice to Guenievre to make sure Master Aaron has no objections and that this does not go against any policies.

Laws and Policies update -- Lady Guenievre is working with Duke Palymar on this, no specific progress to report at this time. Lady Moraig would like a copy of the awards sections. The kingdom would like an examination of our officer change-over policies, with an intent to clarify them rather than changing them.

Midrealm Curia report (October 4 meeting) -- Guenievre attended this meeting and will type up a separate summary of it. TRM Dag and Elayna had lots of ideas, including an upper-level rapier award, upper and lower-level equestrian awards, and a system where children may perform some archery marshaling duties (not inspections, but could do scoring, set-up, running the line.) A double rotation system for coronation events was discussed, so that two areas would be favored for bids (rather than just one , as in standard rotation) and the Prince and Princess could choose between them. TRM would like to re-write law XVI-1030 regarding removal of officers to add language of "suspension pending investigation," to allow non-renewal of warrant as a method of removing officers, and to allow removal "for just cause." This would make removal less arbitrary, requiring just cause and allowing more challenges, and requires the Sovereigns to be more responsible. A re-vamping of some aspects of RUM is in discussion, reviving a past pattern whereby certain classes have set syllabi and would be consistent across the different teachers. For example, "Martial Arts 105" could always be combat archery, etc. Finally, the power to warrant has been returned to Northshield.

Northshield Calendar office: The position started out as the person who collects information for and maintains the principality calendar. The duties have expanded and now the intention is that the calendar person for the Pale should only accept information from Lord Padruig, our Calendar. Lord Kenric pointed out that his policy is only to accept event announcements for the Northwatch from Lord Padruig, and that in many cases Padruig is the one sending flyers to the Pale, but that event staffs are bypassing him there. Suggestion to educate people on this, including a permanent note in the "Submissions" section of the Pale that all Northshield people should send information to Padruig, and not to the Pale staff. Lord Padruig, Mistress Myrra de Blackwoode (Pale Calendar Officer), and Viscountess Gwyneth Felton (Midrealm Chronicler), are willing to follow such a policy; the opinion of Baron Folo, Pale Editor, is as yet unknown. Lord Kenric will emphasize this in the Northwatch, as will Lord Padruig. This should really streamline the process and cut down on errors in announcements, as the event steward sends one announcement to Padruig and it's taken care of.


Minister of Regalia -- four applications received; he favors Lady Shandar and Lord Tormud. Lord Tormud is very busy. Lady Shandar is a good choice, with the only drawback being her small apartment. Lady Shandar was approved as Minister of Regalia. Regarding regalia, TSH's suggest that the MOR should have all of it, and the royalty should be able to go over and pick out just what they want rather than transferring everything to the royalty at every accession. This will save wear and tear on rega lia and be easier on royalty. It was suggested that the MOR should keep and maintain a picture inventory to help royalty in choosing items they wish to use. TSH will meet with Lady Shandar and transfer items to her.

Western Deputy -- 2 applicants, Lord Brian Enyon of Korsvag and Lady Giulia Isabella da Venezia, who is resigning as co-fundraising coordinator since there is not enough work for two people. [Lady Giulia is also the Chronicler's emergency deputy.] Lord Brian is very eager to work and travels a lot, and so is recommended.

Distribution of Raffle Funds from Warriors and Warlords VI -- $936 raised, and some proceeds are supposed to go to the travel fund for our Coronet and Heirs. Can we set up a formula to decide percentage and apply this to all such raffles in the future? HSH Belrix pointed out that the raffle organizers asked HSH Prism and himself if they could hold a raffle specifically for their travel fund, and then they did not actually designate it that way on the day of the raffle. This was understood to be an honest mistake, with no intention of slighting Their Serene Highnesses. Discussion on sources of income for Principality funds in general; unlike kingdom, Principality events are not required to donate part of event profits to Nor thshield, so we rely on donations, fund-raisers. Lord Balthasar has worked to move funds into CD's for interest income as well. Discussion of partition of raffle proceeds; Lord Balthasar moved that 60% go to the general fund (since royalty's basic travel fund comes out of that fund), 30% to TSH's, 10% to TE the Heirs; motion seconded by HSH Prism, passed unanimously.

General Income discussion -- We could encourage a small 12th Night gift from everyone to the Principality, say $5.00 per person; promote this at group level, with influential people. Problems -- when people give cash gifts in court, usually a local exchequer is called to receive it and things get lost. Suggestion that there be active deputies of the Northshield Exchequer at every court. An advantage is that all of our US groups are close to a Norwest/Wells Fargo bank and deputies can make deposit s at events instead of carrying cash home to deposit.

It was noted that groups and individuals are making gifts/donations to the Kingdom but forgetting the Principality; more word-of mouth about financial gifts could be useful.

Office transition - Lord Etienne left bills of about $60, which uses up most of the budget for the office; would it be possible to pro-rate use of funds near transitions? The problem is that expenses for offices happen when they happen (some seasonal, some more constant.) Suggestion to consider this, figure out budgeting for offices.

Griffin's Gate -- there needs to be a policy to handle money, not only to handle Grimm's tents and prevent confusion like this year, but to handle camp expenses and fees. People paid $10 each this year to cover tents, wood, tiki fuel. This is a principality royal encampment, not a household encampment, and this money has to go through the exchequer (or deputy). Also, we need a camp supervisor position and need to set policies for the encampment. Suggestion that the supervisor could be an autocra t, and this makes him/her automatically a deputy of the seneschal and responsible for handling/delegating the accounting, assembling a staff, etc. Problem - the job will need to be filled before the people who will be Prince and Princess at war are chosen as heirs. To allow reasonable time and still work with Pennsic Coronet, applications will be solicited in late fall, be chosen in January once Pennsic Coronet are Heirs. Agreed to explain this and solicit applications in the next Northwatch.


Minister of Tournaments - one applicant, Katriona ni Chonarain.  She is approved to fill the position.

Scouting - dead, dead, dead. This may be a natural fluctuation, or perhaps we need a new chief of scouts.

Rapier - doing well, many new marshals, and the community is happy with the attention they are getting. Some discussion of the "toe touch" rule; pointed out that rapier people look at it as a sport or game, not as a recreation of combat, and this is a game-type rule. After rough introduction, schlaegers are a good thing for safety, technique, and allowing accoutrements.

Equestrian - they're happy; not enough horses around, though.

Archery - stable; archers would like more war practices, and would like it if archery is part of victory conditions at more events. Marshals are waiting for warrant cards - the system is inefficient. The archery marshal is soliciting applicants; perhaps we should look for someone who is a fireball/cheerleader type to help encourage growth.

Midrealm Earl Marshal - Viscount Sir Miles is incoming; he's not going to rescind any powers granted to Northshield by Sir William, his predecessor. Sir Wulfgang will work with Miles and William to get specifics to be sure.

Much discussion, planning to re-form marshal warranting in the works. Change would focus on breaking out tasks - just as many signature slots, but people could fill them at different events. Also looking at requiring more activity for signatures, not just standing there while things go smoothly.

Viscount Sir Miles is looking at unpadded polearms. In Northshield, consensus is that nobody likes them, in over 100 people Sir Wulfgang has surveyed, since they hurt, and are ugly and inauthentic. They are easy to confuse with spears, and set a bad example. At least some padding should be required. They are a standard macho thing for war in the East, etc.


We're down on warranted chroniclers. There are currently 18 newsletters, 11 of which are warrantable; the last warrant list was 16 people. Hoping numbers will come up as some offices transfer, mid-term warranting happens.

Web sites are strong, official or not.

Chronicler successor - 4 applicants. In order of preference: Lord Roger de Bar (Shire of Inner Sea) is currently a chronicler, and has lots of prior print experience as well as good traveling capacity.

Mistress Cassandra of the Western Green (Sandra Westergren, Barony of Nordskogen) has lots of general SCA experience, regional officer experience. She has done a regional archery newsletter.

Lady Gwenyvar verch Owen ap Morgan (Regina Simmons)- currently Northshield Webminister, has less chronicling experience; web sites are not the same.

Lady Aldiana Dragonetti (Lori Martell, Inner Sea) - she's currently the seneschal and chronicler of her home group, and is married to Lord Roger de Bar.

Can Lord Roger do reminders for submissions, work with people, encourage contributions, and contribute to the decision-making for Northshield? Reminder that the chronicler does lots of non-Stallari work, more than many of the other officers, and print publishing experience is probably more important.

Would Lord roger be too much of a loss for Inner Sea? Mistress Libbet, whose sister Lady Eleanor de Warren lives there, commented that likely to be some hardship, but not a lot; there are new people coming up within the group, good for them to have opportunities to serve. Both Lord Roger and Lady Aldiana are core people for the group. Lord Roger would do well in this growth step, and moving him up will give a chance to expand the officer core in Inner Sea. Finally, we can't fill all the offices with pe ople from the bigger groups.

Motion by HE Fiona to approve Lord Roger de Bar as chronicler, seconded by HSH Belrix, passed unanimously.

Risograph - it's stalled. Person who is working on details has not been in communication. We have $500 in the fund, and need another $1500. We need to focus on this, do a long-range fundraising effort; Lord Balthasar will discuss with Lady Tatiana. We need to get risograph and start saving money; Lord Roger will not be able to underwrite the Northwatch to the extent that Lord Kenric has. Request to get a budget for the chronicler, especially now that postage and printing are going up. Bulk ma il has a lower limit now; is it workable to go that way? Unfortunately it takes ridiculous amounts of time, and we would lose timelines in relation to the Pale.

Ways to increase income/lower costs - Stallari should bug all of their officers and expect them to subscribe as requirement for holding office. Could we raise the price from $10/year to $12/year ($1/month)? Likely we'd lose some subscribers due to cost, and still would not be breaking even since costs are $1.20 per issue per month, not including the cost of trade copies that we absorb. Could we raise the price of Coronet tourneys by $1.00 and give discounts to Northwatch subscribers? That could be PR, administrative problem. We need to focus on lowering costs through equipment purchase.

Printing costs per issue are now 65¢, would be 16¢ with a risograph.

Could we get a loan to buy one now, pay it back with interest through profits from cost savings? Paying back loan would take a few years, but it would stop our financial bleeding. Additionally, we should raise the price to $12 US per year and do a few more big fund-raisers to kick-start this payment process.

Motion by HSH Prism to raise the subscription price to $12 US, seconded by HE Tarrach, passed unanimously.

Motion by HE Fiona to "loan" the money from the Principality savings to purchase a risograph in 1999; amended by Lord Balthasar, that this be supplemented by fundraisers; seconded by HSH Belrix, passed unanimously.

Comments from Lord Balthasar - this time will allow CD's to roll so cash is available. It will take about four years to repay the loan based on the increased subscription price. There will be more information in his Northwatch letter.

**** There was a pause to greet Baron Geoffrey of Nordskogen, who called on the phone.


There will be an A&S display at Boar's Head on Caer Anterth Mawr, Dec. 12. The A&S competition will be held in Caer Anterth Mawr this spring, with pre-A&S activities in Korsvag. There are numerous independent A&S activities going on throughout the principality.

Mistress Libbet still has not received the files of the office from her predecessor Baroness Elspeth Bibury (Barony of Jararvellir.) Without them, she cannot warrant many MOAS's since the reports upon which the warranting is based may be in those files. HSH Belrix will be seeing Baroness Elspeth soon, and will ask for the files at that time.


Several submissions were sent in by Lord Adrien des Troyes without consulting Lady Moraig. They included 1.) a compass star clechy, divided quarterly, argent and or, fieldless - no designated use, but nifty, and Lady Moraig would like to get it passed and reserved for Northshield use; 2. A design for the Guide Star that was previously rejected by the Stallari; 3. The original device for the Nordbandr, which is acceptable; 4. An idea for the Hearth which was rejected by Stallari before as too modern. Lady Moraig would like to call and pull #2 and #4, and she will discuss this with Lord Adrien, including the fees for these submissions.

Also submitted this time was a nice device for the Shire of Stromfels.

There are some problems with Northshield ceremonies as they stand; some language is "usurping" authority/role of the Crown for the Coronet, and there are style problems with other parts. Lady Moraig will discuss with Lord Adrien, Minister of Protocol, the current submitted draft for Principality Ceremonies.  Any suggestions are welcome, and Lady Moraig will bring suggestions to next Stallari meeting.

Athena's Ring will be re-submitted as Athena's Owl ("Ring" will not pass). Viscountess Kassandra Tenebrosa (Kristi Charron, Barony of Jararvellir) was asked about this, she's fine with it.

It was suggested to close the Order of Persephone's Circle. HSH Prism pointed out that since the Princess serves equally with the Prince, there is no reason to reward women more, especially since the order doesn't have a function the way the Order of the Rose does. Viscountesses Gwyneth Felton (Linda Moore, Barony of Caer Anterth Mawr) and Kassandra have been consulted and agree with this idea. Although a motion to close Persephone's Circle was made by HE Fiona, seconded by HE Tarrach, and passed unanimou sly, it was decided later that since all the Viscountesses have not been consulted, this action was nullified.

Suggestion made to save the pomegranate device previously considered for Persephone's Circle for use with the children's award that is under consideration.

The names "Guide Star" and "North Star" have been rejected, but the device passed. Other possibilities for the name include "Cynasura" (Latin for North Star) and "Scipsteorra" (ship star.) We would need to find documentation for the latter; Moraig will work on that. The proto-incipient group in Fairmont, MN, known as Lochlan Keep, now likes the name Bal na Loch, which is more likely to pass (suggested by Talan.) This group needs to do the work to become incipient so they can register the name.


Lady Tatiana Marana Melville (Tonia Melville, Shire of Mare Amethystinum) is the emergency deputy. If she has to move, Lord Gevehard von Baden will be the interim deputy. Lady Sian plans to make sure the emergency deputy has complete knowledge of all aspects of the office.

The records of the Chirurgeon's office are an outdated mess, going back to 1982. Lady Sian is working on getting things into shape and will be building a database of chirurgeons.

Lady Sian is planning several changes to the apprenticeship process and philosophy, starting with moving chirurgeons back to partnership with the marshallate rather than an adversarial status. New chirurgeons will get lots of training in working with the marshallate, and keeping lines of communication open between chirurgeons and marshals will be a priority; all have been asked to report problems to Lady Sian and Sir Wulfgang.

People doing apprenticeships toward warranting will be required to do more than just show up at events; one melee or class will be required. There will also be a written test with material taken from the Chirurgeons' Handbook and the Marshals' Handbook, since both of these are easily available and both are required.

Lady Sian will also address the absurdity of demanding apprenticeships from medical professionals and persons formerly warranted as chirurgeons; she wants discretionary power, to prevent making experienced people jump through hoops and to make sure that people unfamiliar with SCA combat, even if they are medical professionals, get the proper experience.

Lady Sian will work to sync warrants with first aid/CPR certificates, so that everything is up for renewal at the same time.

Waterbearing -- the guild is getting in the way of actual waterbearing. Sian is going to strip it of ranks, leaving just the Guildmistress for administration, education. Mistress Margaret Malise agrees with this, and they have decided that if the guild is not "fixed" within a year, it will be disbanded.


T-shirts and window clings are on sale.

There is no word yet on when the Northshield address book will be ready to go.


New group seneschal keys - the $8/key expenditure was approved by the Stallari, but Mistress Aekatyerina's (Cindy Craig, Barony of Nordskogen) house was robbed and it will take her a while to get her shop in order. The plan now is to make them and present them on the new groups' 1-year anniversaries next summer. Motion made by Lady Sian, seconded by HE Tarrach, passed unanimously.


Pavilion - Mistress Libbet suggested that the Stallari consider buying a Northshield pavilion. In the long run, it will be a cost-saver ($2998 for a 20'x40', or $407 rent each year for the same size from Grimm's.) Panther Primitives comes highly recommended, and they give a 10% discount if you order three or more pavilions at the same time. We could order two or more personal-size pavilions for storage, to enhance the visual effect of the encampment.

She presented a packet consisting of the Panther Primitives catalog and additional illustrations of the Nordskogen pavilion. This pavilion was paid for in part by "selling" dags, whereby people could buy a dag for $25 and then get the right to paint their registered device on that dag. A Northshield pavilion could raise the price of dags to increase proportion of cost raised from such donations.

Alternately, a person or several people could submit proposals for making such a pavilion themselves, with dags, other fundraisers to raise materials costs.

Any pavilion will require storage and training; it was suggested to get a dedicated trailer and institute a lesser office specifically to manage the pavilion (in addition to the Minister of Regalia.)

This will be considered and discussed later.


Stallari will meet on November 15, the Sunday after Coronet Tourney, in the Shire of Mare Amethystinum.

The meeting was adjourned

Posted by: Elaine de Beauchamp Council Secretary (KLO) on 10/10/1998

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